Originea rom

NASTYPRIMUL a scris:

Acum 20000 de ani, populatia din Carpati, traia, normal, in pesteri, din cauza glaciatiunii. Erau imbracati identic ca dacii.

Aveau o putere psihica deosebit de mare. Si normal erau putini ca numar.

Nu ma intrebati de unde stiu.

Stiu.

Ce este puterea psihică?

Eschimoşii trăiesc de 20.000 de ani

Giurgiu Crisan a scris:

1.) Eschimoşii trăiesc de 20.000 de ani

eschimoşii trăiesc

Giurgiu Crisan a scris:

eschimoşii trăiesc

Uite ai un gif pt. Iberia de la anul 1000 pana la 2000. Inainte de anul 1000 avem evolutia in zona Pirineilor dinspre occitana si gascona.

Lingvistii numesc pe buna dreptate limba nord-italiana ca fiind galo-italica, iar in aceasta supra-familie inglobeaza inclusiv occitana, catalona, iar pe mai departe grupul iberic.

Cyber-sapiens a scris:

Eschimoşii traiesc acolo dupa retragerea calotei glaciare, iar artefactele lor cele mai vechi o probeaza cca.-3.ooo /-1.ooo.

Franceza nu exista, ea a aparut in maniera evolutiva sub influenta francona-germana.

Ibericii spanioli s-au arabizat disparand, iar altii s-au retra spre nord cu feudalii lor, de aceea limbile neo-romanice iberice din perioada araba s-a stins fara urmasi (ladino si mozarabic), in timp ce spaniola se trage din castiliana nordica, care la randul sau se trage din aragoneza, care la randul sau din "navareza /franceza gascona" "franceza bascilor" deoarece Spania acelor vremuri se gasea in Pirinei si Franta, era o Marca a Frantei francilor merovingieni.

In mod analog catalona se trage din provencala/occitana, care la randul sau provine din zona italiana limitrofa, ... dupa reconquista ea (catalona) va cobora spre sud, la fel aragoneza-castiliana, la fel si portugheza, ultima avand descendenta din galiciana, galiciana inrudita cu aragoneza.

Cu privire la haplogrupuri si DNA-mtc, sunt dispus sa redeschidem discutia, poate macar sangele ne-a ramas autohton, poate poate. :roll:

domnule, la şcoală aţi

Pentru cei care inca se mai indoiesc cu privire la importanta fenomenului migrator in formarea natiunilor moderne.

Iata ca nici macar spaniolii nu sunt urmasii continui ai romanilor iberici, ci galo-italici din "Lombardia", idem si francezii, ...

"Lombardia" /Padania/nordul Italiei, a fost un rezervor de populatii neo-romanice pentru Galia si Iberia, de aceea limbile aflate la vest de nordul Italiei se trag din galo-italiana si nu au origine autohtona fiecare pe locul sau din perioada imperiala romana.

Explicatia ar fi urmatoarea: Imperiul Bizantin (Romania) a cuprins partea rasariteana a Padaniei, Corsica si Sardinia (pe langa sudul Italiei, iar doi la mana, partea vestica a Padaniei era in contact direct cu Dafne-regiunea proprietate papala la sud de Marele masiv francez si Alpi, acolo unde avem limba Arpitana, iar mai la vest s-a nascut provencala.

In mod similar si evolutia vlahilor in Epir-Tesalia cu sudul Italiei.

Iata ce s-a intamplat cu romanii iberici:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_Arabic

The Muwallads primarily spoke Andalusian Arabic, along with a wide variety of Iberian Romance languages.

Through the cultural Arabization of muladies and their increasing inter-marriage with some Berbers and Arabs present in Iberia, the distinctions between the different Muslim groups became increasingly blurred in the 11th and 12th centuries. The populations mixed with such rapidity that it was soon impossible to distinguish ethnically the elements of foreign origin from the natives. Therefore, they merged into a more homogeneous group of Andalusi Arabs generally also called Moors.

Conversion to Islam was encouraged by the Ummayad caliphs and Emirs of Córdoba but it was not forced. Many Christians converted to Islam to avoid the Jizya tax which they were subjected to as Dhimmis.[4]

Conversion to Islam also opened up new horizons to the native Christians, alleviated their social position, ensured better living conditions, and broadened scope for more technically skilled and advanced work.[5]

The Christians who embraced Islam became Mawali or Clients attached to an Arab tribe and as such, were thoroughly Arabized, adopting the Arab dress code, customs, and language.

In Islamic history muwalladun designates in a broader sense non-Arab neo-Muslims or the descendants of converts. In the Muslim-ruled parts of the Iberian Peninsula, parts of the indigenous until-then Christian population (basically a mixture of the pre-Roman peoples of the Iberian Peninsula, ancient Romans, Visigoths and Suebi) converted to Islam in the 8th and 9th centuries.

In the 10th century a massive conversion of Christians took place, so that muladies comprised the majority of the population of Al-Andalus by the century's end. However, the majority of Muwallads had embraced Islam early, but retained many pre-Islamic customs and characteristics.

Conversion to Islam was encouraged by the Ummayad caliphs and Emirs of Córdoba but it was not forced. Many Christians converted to Islam to avoid the Jizya tax which they were subjected to as Dhimmis=scutire de taxe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muladi

In 805, the Muwallads of Córdoba, incited by certain theologians, revolted against the Umayyads under Hakim I, but the uprising was suppressed. In 814, there was a second revolt of Muwallads in Corboba, and this time the revolt was put down with the utmost severity, and resulted in the expulsion of 9,500 Muwallads from Córdoba, with over 1,500 going to Alexandria and 8,000 to Fez. In 858, there was a Muwallad revolt in Mérida which was led by Ibn Marwan. The Muwallads complained of the taxation of their lands as if they were still Christian. The revolt's outcome was the defeat of Ibn Marwan. Mérida was subdued, but the centre of revolt soon moved to Badajoz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muladi

PS: Nu cunosc nimic despre "savantii tai" poate ma luminezi tu!

Comparatia cu I.Otoman imi pare absurda, deoarece turcii s-au limitat la a turciza "aproape de casa" in zonele caldute (Asia Mica, Grecia, Dobrogea-Crimeea Helespont, Azerbaidjan-Daghestan si Kirghistan, restul (Volga-Urali-Turkestan) este opera vechilor turanici.

Daca ne gandim cate natiuni diverse au inghitit otomanii doar in Anatolia ...

Arabii in schimb au fost extrem de vorace si au asimilat toata zona ce insemna pt. ei "acasa" (Iberia, Sicilia, Creta, nordul Africii, Orientul mijlociu, ...).

-cu privire la eschimosi, in cca.-3ooo /-5ooo, nu existau tarmuri libere mult la sud de Groenlanda, chiar nu stiu de ce esti atat de defazat, practic aplici topografia moderna in plina glaciatie.

Giurgiu Crisan a scris:

... harta pusă de tine nu susţine ceea ce ai afirmat

bine, dac zici tu. Unii se arabizează, alţii se romanizează, alţii se spaniolizează la loc..... e clar. Renunţ. Să fie

dacă de presupus că originea limbii numite astăzi rom