Rezervele mondiale de hidrocarburi?

Etanolul nu e o solutie. Pentru plantat, arat , ingrasaminte, etc apoi procesare, se consuma mai multa energie decat iese. Si se distruge si solul prin agricultura intensiva. Acum se produce etanol doar pentru ca oamenii primesc subventii de la stat.

Asta arata ce se face intr-o societate capitalista, scopul final fiind banii, nu conteaza ca nu se rezolva problema petrolului, nu conteaza ca de fapt iese mai putina energie decat bagi, daca guvernul iti da bani o faci. Si in felul asta tot inainte spre marginea prapastiei (sfarsitul civilizatiei cum o cunoastem)

Nov. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Ethanol, the centerpiece of President George W. Bush's plan to wean the U.S. from oil, is 2007's worst energy investment.

The corn-based fuel tumbled 57 percent from last year's record of $4.33 a gallon and drove crop prices to a 10-year high. Production in the U.S. tripled after Morgan Stanley, hedge fund firm D.E. Shaw & Co. and venture capitalist Vinod Khosla helped finance a building boom.

Even worse for investors and the Bush administration, energy experts contend ethanol isn't reducing oil demand. Scientists at Cornell University say making the fuel uses more energy than it creates, while the National Research Council warns ethanol production threatens scarce water supplies.

As oil nears $100 a barrel, ethanol markets are so depressed that distilleries are shutting from Iowa to Germany. An investor who put $10 million into ethanol on Dec. 31 now has $7.5 million, a loss of 25 percent. Florida and Georgia have banned sales during the summer, when the fuel may evaporate and create smog.

``I don't anticipate any sort of immediate rebound,'' says Barry Frazier, the 50-year-old president of Center Ethanol LLC in suburban St. Louis. ``It's going to take 12 to 24 months before the market is able to absorb the large amount of new capacity.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

jet li a scris:

Etanolul nu e o solutie. Pentru plantat, arat , ingrasaminte, etc apoi procesare, se consuma mai multa energie decat iese.

Asta nu e neapărat relevant. Şi frigiderul generează mai puţin frig

Nu. Nu intelegi ca etanolul pe scara mare nu poate fi produs fara petrol ? Articolul de mai sus tocmai asta zice : datorita pretului mare al petrolului etanolul nu mai e profitabil. Poate pot sa il faci pe scara mica, dar asta nu o sa rezolve nimic pentru economia actuala.

Productia de petrol din Sakhalin in Rusia, rusii sunt mai destepti ca noi, nu isi vand resursele naturale companiilor straine :

The waters of the Sea of Okhotsk around Sakhalin Island are believed to hold total estimated reserves of at least 45 billion barrels of oil and natural gas equivalents, an amount similar to the resources remaining in the Gulf of Mexico or the North Sea.

One of most formidable challenges to unlocking those riches proved to be the Moscow government itself. It won a tug of war with foreign investors that left Russia's state-controlled Gazprom gas giant in control and reduced the Netherlands' Royal Dutch Shell and Japanese partners to minority shareholders in Sakhalin Energy, the international consortium running the project.

Moscow threatened last year to pull the project's operating license, citing problems in compliance with environmental regulations. The risk of losing the entire project pressured Shell and other founders to cede majority control to Gazprom in April for $7.45 billion.

Shell now holds 27.5 percent of Sakhalin Energy, along with Japanese firms Mitsui & Co. at 12.5 percent and Mitsubishi Corp. at 10 percent.

After the switch in control, the Moscow government last month gave its tentative approval for the project and said environmental compliance had improved.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/busine...gy/5315263.html

jet li a scris:

Nu. Nu intelegi ca etanolul pe scara mare nu poate fi produs fara petrol ? Articolul de mai sus tocmai asta zice : datorita pretului mare al petrolului etanolul nu mai e profitabil. Poate pot sa il faci pe scara mica, dar asta nu o sa rezolve nimic pentru economia actuala.

Măi domnule, pentru orice lucru vrei să produci pe lumea asta,

"I spent 30,000 dollars year before last on fertilizer. This year over 100 grand. Soon, people not going to be able to pay the price for what they eat. Hell, I am not going to be able to pay the price to plant it."

Un fermier din America. Ingrasamintele se fac din petrol nu din curent electric. Daca nu folosesti ingrasaminte in cativa ani distrugi tot solul. Si daca vrei sa folosesti ingrasaminte naturale ai nevoie de o cireada uriasa de vaci, care trebuie hranite cumva, nu e asa simplu.

jet li a scris:

Un fermier din America. Ingrasamintele se fac din petrol nu din curent electric. Daca nu folosesti ingrasaminte in cativa ani distrugi tot solul. Si daca vrei sa folosesti ingrasaminte naturale ai nevoie de o cireada uriasa de vaci, care trebuie hranite cumva, nu e asa simplu.

Care cireadă uriaşă de vaci o să producă metaaaan ... :)

Aşa-i că la asta nu te-a dus mintea? :)

O sa produca balegar, care e foarte folositor.

Daca vrei ingrasaminte ai putea desigur sa cosesti fanul si sa il arunci direct pe aratura, sa putrezeasca in loc sa il dai la vaci si sa folosesti apoi balegarul, obtinand intre timp si lapte si carne.

Ai obtine un ingrasamant mai bun.

Dar ce mai pui pe pamantul folosit pentru hrana vacilor ? Se va transforma intr-un desert daca il exploatezi fara grija, gandindu-te doar la pamantul pe care vrei sa il ingrasi ,pe care cresti grau de exemplu

In felul asta se vede cum ingrasamintele artificiale si petrolul folosit pentru ele sunt de vina pentru productia mai mult decat indestulatoare de alimente si cresterea exploziva a populatiei in ultima suta de ani. Fara ele vom reveni la nivelul din 1900 sau mai jos - 1 miliard jumatate de oameni, asta cand lucrurile se vor stabiliza - in vreo 100 de ani. De aceea petrolul ar trebui folosit numai pentru lucruri din astea vitale : ingrasaminte, medicamente.

Mersul cu masina nu e un drept, e un noroc - am gasit petrol mergem cu masina. Daca suntem destepti nu mai mergem cu masina si il folosim unde e nevoie mai mare de el

Si productia de fosfor in intreaga lume a atins un varf. Fosforul e folosit pentru ingrasaminte artificiale.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/02/0079915

When we say the soil is rich, it is not a metaphor. It is as rich in energy as an oil well. A prairie converts that energy to flowers and roots and stems, which in turn pass back into the ground as dead organic matter. The layers of topsoil build up into a rich repository of energy, a bank. A farm field appropriates that energy, puts it into seeds we can eat. Much of the energy moves from the earth to the rings of fat around our necks and waists. And much of the energy is simply wasted, a trail of dollars billowing from the burglar's satche

Agricultura moderna e bazata pe ingrasamintele produse din petrol

Daca vrei sa faci agricultura fara sa pui ingrasaminte inapoi in sol, o sa obtii distrugerea solului si productia de acum 200 de ani, in nici un caz indeajuns pentru populatia actuala. Aici Platon vorbeste despre distrugerea solului prin agricultura in Grecia antica :

What now remains of the formerly rich land is like the skeleton of a sick man. . . . Formerly, many of the mountains were arable. The plains that were full of rich soil are now marshes. Hills that were once covered with forests and produced abundant pasture now produce only food for bees. Once the land was enriched by yearly rains, which were not lost, as they are now, by flowing from the bare land into the sea. The soil was deep, it absorbed and kept the water in loamy soil, and the water that soaked into the hills fed springs and running streams everywhere. Now the abandoned shrines at spots where formerly there were springs attest that our description of the land is true.

Time despre Peak Oil, se recunoaste ca varful productiei a fost in Iulie 2006 :

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...1686824,00.html

In July 2006, the world's oil rigs pumped out crude at a rate of nearly 85.5 million bbl. a day. They haven't come close since, even as prices have risen from $75 to $98 per bbl. Which raises a question of potentially epochal significance: Is it all downhill from here?

jet li a scris:

O sa produca balegar, care e foarte folositor.

Daca vrei ingrasaminte ai putea desigur sa cosesti fanul si sa il arunci direct pe aratura, sa putrezeasca in loc sa il dai la vaci si sa folosesti apoi balegarul, obtinand intre timp si lapte si carne.

Ai obtine un ingrasamant mai bun.

Tu de flatulenţă ai auzit? :) Aşa produc vacile metan. :)

Masini, autobuz, biciclete :